--- title: "Living Circuits and Biofoundries: Ethics and Care of Synthetic Biology with Emma Frow" podcast: "Modem Futura" episode: "Episode 34" hosts: "Sean Leahy and Andrew Maynard" date: 2025-06-03 audio: https://cdn.simplecast.com/audio/018f87c3-4d42-4bc0-9d66-53873b51ec68/episodes/414def94-4060-42a0-b3e5-2c28420a9502/audio/e6840f88-0e83-4045-a36f-9ce598064e8b/default_tc.mp3?aid=rss_feed&feed=3frRI0HN mirror: https://text.futureofbeinghuman.com/modemfutura/34-living-circuits-and-biofoundries-ethics-and-care-of-syntheti.html --- # Living Circuits and Biofoundries: Ethics and Care of Synthetic Biology with Emma Frow Modem Futura · Episode 34 · June 3, 2025 · 72 min · Hosts: Sean Leahy and Andrew Maynard Listen: [MP3 audio](https://cdn.simplecast.com/audio/018f87c3-4d42-4bc0-9d66-53873b51ec68/episodes/414def94-4060-42a0-b3e5-2c28420a9502/audio/e6840f88-0e83-4045-a36f-9ce598064e8b/default_tc.mp3?aid=rss_feed&feed=3frRI0HN) · [Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/living-circuits-and-biofoundries-ethics-and/id1771688480?i=1000710981654&uo=4) · [Spotify (show)](https://open.spotify.com/show/3eFl4hY4t1qTCWE2Bxotrg) · [YouTube (video)](https://www.youtube.com/@ModemFutura) --- What does it really take to engineer life—and should we? In this wide-ranging conversation, Sean Leahy and Andrew Maynard sit down with ASU colleague **Dr. Emma Frow** to unpack the promise and perils of **synthetic biology**. Emma traces the field’s origins—from the early “DNA-as-code” dream of rational genetic design to today’s reality of brute-force experimentation and highly automated **biofoundries**—and explains why biology stubbornly resists plug-and-play engineering. The trio dive into the tensions between **control vs. care**, showing how metaphors borrowed from electronics can miss the messy, evolving nature of living systems. They discuss emerging industrial platforms that treat DNA as “wetware,” the rise of robotic labs running thousands of parallel experiments, and the moral weight of releasing engineered organisms into open ecosystems. Throughout, Emma argues for a practice-based ethic of **“taking care of”**—a continual, relational approach that surfaces hidden risks, centers responsibility, and invites broader publics into decision-making. Along the way they draw surprising parallels with AI development, explore the economics shaping biotech innovation, and imagine futures where microbes help recycle toxic waste—or accidentally reboot entire ecosystems. It’s a candid, thought-provoking tour of how we might cultivate more caring—and more resilient—biotechnology futures. **Links:** - [Emma Frow, Ph.D. [ASU Bio]](https://search.asu.edu/profile/2564909) - [*GROW* (published by Ginkgo Bioworks)](https://www.growbyginkgo.com/2024/03/28/beyond-control/) - [Report on biocontainment](https://www.authorea.com/doi/full/10.22541/au.174526562.21903148/v1) -----Modem Futura is a production of the Future of Being Human initiative at Arizona State University. Be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. To learn more about the Future of Being Human initiative and all of our other projects visit - [https://futureofbeinghuman.asu.edu](https://futureofbeinghuman.asu.edu/)Subscribe to our [YouTube Channel: @ModemFutura](https://www.youtube.com/@ModemFutura)Follow us on Instagram: [@ModemFutura](https://www.instagram.com/modemfutura/)**Host Bios:****Sean M. Leahy, PhD** - [ASU Bio](https://search.asu.edu/profile/3183014)\ Sean is an internationally recognized technologist, futurist, and educator innovating humanistic approaches to emerging technology through a Futures Studies approach. He is the Executive Director for the [Future of Being Human Initiative](https://futureofbeinghuman.asu.edu/) and Research Scientist for the [School for the Future of Innovation in Society](https://sfis.asu.edu/) and Senior Global Futures Scholar with the [Julie Ann Wrigley Global Futures Laboratory](https://globalfutures.asu.edu/) at [Arizona State University](http://www.asu.edu/).**Andrew Maynard, PhD** - [ASU Bio](https://search.asu.edu/profile/2670673)\ Andrew is a scientist, author, thought leader, and Professor of Advanced Technology Transitions in the ASU [School for the Future of Innovation in Society](https://sfis.asu.edu/). He is the founder of the ASU [Future of Being Human initiative](https://futureofbeinghuman.asu.edu/), Director of the ASU [Risk Innovation Nexus](https://riskinnovation.org/), and was previously Associate Dean in the ASU [College of Global Futures](https://collegeofglobalfutures.asu.edu/).----- --- *These are the show notes for this episode of Modem Futura (), a podcast hosted by Sean Leahy and Andrew Maynard and part of the ASU Future of Being Human initiative (). This file is a text mirror of the episode’s show notes — not a transcript. Listen to the full episode via the links above, or watch it on YouTube ().*